I once interviewed about fifteen people for an intern programmer position. The seemingly most-qualified person had about twenty programming languages on his resume (for me, that was a red flag).
The least qualified person came in and the discussion went something like this (after I reviewed her resume):
me: so do you have any programming experience?
her: no.
me: …. do you have any desktop or networking experience?
her: no.
me: …. …. do you have any design or analyst experience?
her: no.
me: …. …. …. do you have any customer service experience?
her: no.
me: okay, well, I really need someone who as some kind of computer experience – I’m sorry, this isn’t going to work out.
I could not believe it – I thought maybe she left some stuff off her resume, but in fact she really didn’t have any reason to be in that room. Unless perhaps a professor told her she should get some experience interviewing.
I was disgusted, mad she wasted my time, but cracking up because this was the craziest interview I had that never should have happened.
When I started my job search I was that guy who thought I was ‘good enough.’ Then I realized I was competing with people, for the same job title, who had decades (DECADES) of experience more than I did. (I was looking for general manager and VP positions)
I was not qualified to be in any of those interviews.
I wonder how many job seekers are trying for jobs that they simply aren’t qualified for? More than would admit, I’m guessing.
How about you?
This is the most ridiculous post.. First, what did you expect with an internship? My original perception was that you were actually looking to fill a position, but then I read that it was an internship and I am blown away. How the heck are people supposed to GAIN experience? Did you include the amount of experience you were looking for? Internships usually = no pay, or minimal, and I hate to break it to you, but you typically get what you pay for.
Yes,many are underqualified for positions, but what are people supposed to do? Its great you have an opinion, but as someone with only 3 yrs out of college, and out of a job, if it says 5 yrs, I am applying, and interviewing. While the girl you referenced is the extreme, many recent college grads are perfect for people who can’t pay a lot. Just take the time to train them, and realize they’re a lot more savy than those just entering the market 10/20 yrs ago. I guess in your world, we’d all work at starbucks and volunteer at companies to gain adequate experience, and then apply. How dare we think that internships are *gasp* entry level {or that there is opportunity for training}.
Emily, thanks for the comment. I’m sure there are other posts that are more ridiculous 🙂 I certainly didn’t mean to offend you. Let me address a few points you bring up:
>> what did you expect with an internship?
By the time I did this interview round I had hired a number of interns… all very well qualified. It was always a difficult process because the school, which was only 3 blocks away, provided a number of strong, very talented and experienced candidates.
What did I expect? Someone who had experience with at least a fraction of the job posting. Seriously, this was like an English major applying to a programming internship. You think I should have trained her? Especially when I had a half dozen qualified candidates?
>> My original perception was that you were actually looking to fill a position
In fact, I was. I hired two interns and after a few months offered full-time roles to two of them.
>> Internships usually = no pay, or minimal, and I hate to break it to you, but you typically get what you pay for.
These positions were very well-paying internships. So what you bring up as “usually” was not the case here.
>> Yes,many are underqualified for positions, but what are people supposed to do?
From the hiring manager’s perspective, what do you think I’m supposed to do – hire and then spend a year training the person? Or simply hire someone who fits the job description, and has shown initiative on learning stuff outside of the classroom? The example I give above is an extreme example … it was real, and I couldn’t believe it.
>> … as someone with only 3 yrs out of college, and out of a job, if it says 5 yrs, I am applying, and interviewing.
I applaud you for this – she didn’t have one second of experience… if you have 1 or 2 or 3 years of relevant experience I think you could have landed the job if you knew how to sell yourself in the interview.
Please don’t be offended and put yourself in her shoes… sounds like you and her have different qualifications.
>> I guess in your world, we’d all work at starbucks and volunteer at companies to gain adequate experience, and then apply.
Not saying that at all Emily. The others I hired didn’t do that, they had relevant experience, even while going to school. They got that experience while working or starting their own programming consultancies or something… I think you are reading too much into this emotionally.
>> How dare we think that internships are *gasp* entry level {or that there is opportunity for training}.
I treat my interns as full employees – they are hired to do a job and I expect they don’t need any handholding. Perhaps at bigger companies they could have gotten lots of training, but we were a smaller company (about $100M/year) and I didn’t have a budget to bring on someone who I needed to train – especially since the school already put out people with the skills I needed.
I was looking for people who didn’t need handholding – and there were other highly qualified candidates.
If you were the hiring manager would you have hired her?
I think Emily reacted to your comments in a way that shows how frustrated she is as an unemployed person. That doesn’t mean I am dismissing Emily’s response. I am sympathetic to her remarks and hope that she is able to find a good path for a rewarding career – it’s hard to be out of work!
If I had been you, Mr. Alba, I wouldn’t have hired this person. If she just gave you flat “no” answers, that doesn’t suggest she was even all that interested in the internship to begin with. Perhaps if she had said, “no, I don’t have xyz experience yet, but based upon researching your company and what it doesn’t, I am hoping to get on board to learn more about this/that/etc.” Then she could’ve added why she had hoped to get the internship in the first place, what she has to offer, i.e., what sort of transferable skills she has that are relevant to the question or function that you asked her about . . .
Whoops – I made a mistake in my response. I meant to have the person state, “No, I don’t have xyz experience yet, but based upon researching your company what it objectives are, I am hoping to get on board to learn more about this/that/etc.”
Octavia is correct, as are you..
I had forgotten this until i read your e-mail, and it’s funny because i had thought i unsubscribed from my reader, but apparently i didn’t, and so seeing my name in your recent post brought me back..
i misunderstood your direction, and figured you were speaking more general, and not just towards the girl you interviewed.. my mistake, and i apologize.. in my recent search, HR people have become not so fun to deal with because I have been played by them, and it’s like they’re tricking me into saying too much, or not enough, or whatever and honestly i am just burned out in this stupid job search. I know myself, and know I would do a damn good job at the places I have applied, I follow up, know the right people, have the right connections, references, and then it’s back to square one, and after almost a year of this, I am over it. I want a job that I am passionate about, and it’s proving to be impossible to break into these areas. I see your point,you’re doing your job, I guess i just feel worn out from the games I have come across, or the strict rules of keywords in my cover letter, the phone interviews, or weed out processes.. I see the point of them, and can’t say I would do anything different if I was on the other side, but on this side, it’s incredibly discouraging to walk this road. I am still very close with my previous employers, I hear constantly from the people I apply with that they loved me, and will keep me in mind for the other chapters/offices but they found someone with _____ which showed them an area they didn’t even realize they were missing on that team. This is after a 6 weeks interview process, and this has happened multiple times. Your post almost seemed patronizing, especially towards people without a lot of experience, I felt offended because I am busting it, and it felt like you saw my group as a joke. I see now that was my own emotions, and obviously skewed the way I read it, and for that I do apologize.. I also had thought you were interviewing strictly for internships, and so when reading the rest, it was frustrating to feel like even that is completely un-obtainable. Does this make sense? I am rambling, but bottom line, I am a girl who saw your post and freaked out and shot off a comment.. Thank you for taking the time to respond, and for being kind..
Emily! It took a lot of courage to write and explain to Jason why his posting came off as offensive. I commend you for following-up and am very sorry that you are in this frustrating position. That’s really awful. I am sure that you have fantastic traits and are worth every penny of what you list on our CV. Here’s my comfort – we’re not alone in our job hunt and I’ve made it a point to offer free career advice to other job hunters. It helps me and it helps job hunters – we feel like we’re not alone. Even though it’s easy to know that on an intellectual level, it’s nice to hear it too (i.e., it’s important on an emotional level as job hunting is EXHAUSTING! You keep getting the “no thanks,” and yet you still pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and do it all over again – that in and of itself takes guts, girl!). I encourage people to connect with other job hunters as it allows you to say, “aha! I am not out here on my own. There are others who are struggling too.” Banding together makes the journey more worthwhile, and I am always in search of a new shoulder.
As I said, I have searched for jobs time and time again. So, I’m giving back to communities of people. In return, I’m learning new strategies too. Maybe you could volunteer too – it sounds like you’ve been through this before. That might help. I know it’s given me a boost of confidence to swap advice with other job hunters.
Rest assured, Emily, we’ll find jobs and jobs that we’re passionate about . . . the journey will make you appreciate it all the more.
Thanks so much for sharing.
@Emily – thank you for your reply – that is the best comment I’ve seen on a blog for a long time.
My job search was really bad, also. One thing I’d recommend to you is to get involved with a local job search club, aka, a job ministry (some locations have a lot, others I can’t find). There are many benefits to going and getting really involved (not just lurking).
@Octavia – thanks for catching this – you are right 🙂
This feeling that Emily shares is what has driven me to do what I do with JibberJobber.com, my blog (which I’ve been writing for almost 3 years now), Twitter, my DVD (LinkedIn for Job Seekers), etc. I’m passionate about helping people move out of a very discouraging situation and providing hope and alternatives.
Thanks for reminding me how bad it can get, and why I do what i do.
Jason,
I’m grateful for the fact that we have people like you who share their struggles with others and turn it into tools